HST 195: History of the Vietnam War F14 (Escobar Meta 21179)

I found the initial deadline for making the first posts was a little tricky, because I tried to cram all of my reading and viewing in to Mondays and Tuesdays in order to have a good grasp on the forum topics. This honestly could have just been a personal problem, because I spend most of my day Mondays in school, and all day Tuesdays at work, and obviously the course schedule can't take into account every single person's schedule. But since you are looking for opinion, I think an extra day to get the initial posts done would have been helpful. Even if they are first due on Thursday, that still leaves four full days for discussion. However, if someone doesn't make the effort to post for the first time by Wednesday, they probably won't make the effort to post for the first time by Thursday, either. Committed students will make it work.

I had no problem at all with the scoring of the posts, or the length of the assignments. I usually really dislike forum discussions, but accept that they are a necessary evil in online classes. However, I did feel like the forums in this class contributed to my own understanding of the Vietnam War. I was really pleasantly surprised by how insightful many of my classmates' comments were. I would definitely rate these forums as worth the time and effort. Group size and selection seemed fine.

-The deadlines for assignments were fine, they gave enough time to make sure you could read up and watch the required material. If someone has a job and trying to go to school at the same time, I would put this in there "as my previous students have told me. My class is tough but fair, but if you think that this is a class you can work on at the end of your work day, or when 'you have time'. Those before you have stated that this ineffective and ill advised."

-The scoring for the posts is fair, tough, but fair.

-For your assignments are good, they just are not easy assignments to get done. Mr. Escobar you are definitely the toughest professor I have taken, and for that I thank you.

-The random groups were good, there were a lot of characters in this class and it was a treat to see what they had to add to these forums.  Especially seeing that they all could support their arguments with their opinions that meant something, and not "just 'cause".

It was worth my time, it was more than worth my effort. This was what a real history class is supposed to be like. Not teach history, but teach you history and what it's like to create your revision of events that had happened. I started the class thinking I was a peace free loving hippie, when in actuality I read through these war accounts by Quoc and McNamara and others, and was more Conservative at heart all along. Vietnam was the war that ended all wars, and by that I mean it ended what we thought America could endure. It showed us the humanity, humility, and hubris we possess and expressed through that time. I would make this class mandatory for anyone who thinks they understand history, because they will end it how I feel now. Confused, and more educated than ever.

I enjoyed the forums. Some weeks the Wednesday was a bit early to have read and prepared for the topic especially since we were still talking on Sunday about the prior weeks assignment. It felt like we had this class 7 days a week. I would have liked to end the discussion on Saturday or start the discussion on Thursday. 4 days of forum would have been adequate to get the discussion in, possibly even pushing those non-involved students to be able to contribute more the first time they logged in. The scoring scale was good, I wondered if people were getting points even if their information was wrong. I hated seeing the posts that simply stated I agree and were simple sentences basically saying I read your post. This shouldn't have counted. The random group size was great, I liked that you switched us up. Some students provided more than others so it was nice to get to see different students. The length of the assignments were long. It took a while to read Herring. The dvd episodes were often just an hour, but with notes could take much longer between pausing and writing. I have only taken one other online class with as much course work as this one, it was Hollistic Health. This class had as much work as my bio bonds classes put together.  I would have liked to take some quizzes before the midterm to see what I knew and didn't know so I could better prepare. It would have been nice to gauge my understanding.

Usually wednesday.

The initial deadline was good and helped ensure that posts be made throughout the week. Scoring of posts was reasonable. Written assignments weren't bad. However, they required us to write on material that we were reading that same week and I feel it would be better if we wrote about something we read the previous week. This way we have the entire week to just write the paper instead of reading the chapter and writing the paper in the same week. The forums were definitely worth my effort and it was helpful to see what other people thought.

1.Deadlines are fair and can be met with relative ease

2.The score for my posts would be more helpful if it came up around mid week so I don't have to spam the forum to make sure I have 9 points when I already had 7 by Tuesday and did not know it

3.Assignment length is not a problem

4.I might increase the group size because it can be hard to find things to say in a reply to someone else that has not already been said

5.Definitely

The only thing i would really change is the Wednesday deadline. I get why you have a deadline for people to have started and you don't want all the post coming in five minutes before midnight on the final deadline but sometimes meeting the Wednesday deadline was very difficult for me. I have a very busy first part of the week mon-wed and getting in a well thought out response in the forums can be harder then you might think with so many things going on. so while i see the need for a mid week deadline I would have appreciated being even just one day later as it would make my participation so much easier and make me capable of achieving a forum grade I think better suited the effort i tried to put into the class.

I didn't like the forums. I would have rather spent my time studying for the test and doing the required reading. I felt like it was distracting from what really mattered. 

I felt the way you graded our posts was maybe a little difficult. They were supposed to be our personal opinions so I felt we should have gotten full points if we put effort into our posts. 

All the above criteria was extremely fair and easily attainable even working 40+ hours a week while taking another online accounting course (BT165 - a large volume of weekly homework/quizzes/exams,) as well as being a single mother of two teenage boys.

I think i slack more because i use the online version of this course. Its good, but i think i would have learned more in class structure.

I really did enjoy the forums, although I will wholeheartedly admit that I was one of the students that would post things right at the deadline (sometimes with less than a minute to spare!). I at least feel that my posts were lengthy and well thought out. The grading scale was very generous, I'm sure that many enjoyed the opportunity to post more than the required three times, ensuring that they can get 100%. The length of the assignments was also fair. I also have no qualms with the size of the groups, or the people that constituted them, they were very much worth the time and effort. 

In the way of criticism, I was a little confused each time I saw the parenthesis like (1)(3), I know that in a post somewhere this was explained, and although I'm sure it's a technical issue that might be hard to work around, it would be nice if students in the future had a better way of knowing their score on individual posts. There was also some ambiguity at times regarding what to post on, like when two topics were provided, I wasn't sure if I was supposed to make three comments on each topic or not.

I think the forums were great. It made the online class very interactive.

I have never taken a class that used only online materials. The closest I've had to that experience was a writing class in which the majority of our literature was posted on Moodle through links, and the only books we purchased were technical texts. So though it was nice to not have to buy extra books, it was sort of a pain. And the technical books we did have to buy were very expensive, and only available at the LCC bookstore.  I like to have physical books, as I am a highlighting fiend, so I ended up printing most of the online materials out. It gets a little chaotic trying to keep track of everything, and there were indeed times when the links didn't work correctly on Moodle.

In personal experience, I get frustrated buying books that are only available at LCC, because of the outrageous prices. This term, I ordered all of my books for four classes (ten books total) from Amazon, except for one Economics book that cost me $210, and was only available through LCC. In a price comparison with the bookstore, I saved over $200 ordering from Amazon. I would prefer to not do all my reading online, and feel that an appropriate solution to outrageous book prices is to allow a more competitive market. The econ book I was forced to buy from LCC tripled the amount that I spent on all the rest of my books combined.

I have not taken a class that's offered a "free textbook" outside of high school. And I can tell you right now that's a horrendous idea. I for one have had enough of the complaints of students who can't afford the required texts, but if it was cheap and available for everyone, does anyone think for a minute it'll make more people have it? No. There is no reason that just because one person says they're having a hard time swimming, everyone in the water have to wear lifejackets.  College is a sink or swim system, and there's hundreds of different alternatives and options for the textbooks we are required to have now. I don't think that the Open Educational Resources are a bad idea, I think it's just plain stupid.

Honestly, I can't stand reading online material, I end up putting it in a word document and printing it so I can highlight and write notes. I have had several classes with ebooks and I end up printing the entire book. Its costly and a waste of paper since I can't pass it on to anyone. I do not want or need an ipad or other device, it simply would not work for me. The books used for this class were very inexpensive. There is no need to change the course material.

Good

I would be totally okay with surfing websites. One positive is that the information would then come from many different authors, which would make reading more interesting and helps keep (at least for me) me focused. However I also think that if we're talking about long textbooks like the E-version of textbooks which are currently available I would not like that at all. Reading super long things at a time on the computer is really hard and loading the huge files can take time. For some reason though it's not at all bad to read several shorter documents online.

So if we're several shorter documents, I'm great with it. But if you're looking at huge online textbooks, I would not prefer it.

My only question would be the trustworthiness of various online sites and how much money would actually be saved. Would websites or authors just start making you pay to read their "educational" online document if they thought it would be useful in a classroom?

I think it would be easier for me to have a textbook on  hand because of my studying style. Printing all the materials out can get very hard to organize at times so I would not recommend eliminating hard copies completely

I find text books to be overpriced and are often of little use to an actual class. you obviously made an effort to try and not put to much of a financial burden on students taking the course and that is something i'm grateful for. that having been said if it were possible to have a class compromised of free resources I would be infinitely more likely to take it as classes like that are so rare to find. I willing to do anything to succeed in classes i take except there have been a few times when a text book was expensive and i simply never bought it for a course everything else listed is things i am willing to do. 

I like to learn from an actual text book. I feel like I skip and don't fully read items online. However, sometimes textbooks can be really expensive. This class was nice because I bought both required books on amazon for a total of around $15. If every online class could be like this, that would be awesome! 

N/A

I do not think that the cost of textbooks in retrospect to the tuition and fees for a college course is substantial enough to justify online reading only. I prefer reading books, articles etc. from print as opposed to online reading. The cost of printing for me would be too expensive not only for the paper but for the ink that is extremely expensive. The cost would not justify the online reading only for material as opposed to purchasing the textbook in print. In addition, if I am going to spend the money for required material, I would like to have a book on my library shelf than material that may or may not change or still be available. I have not ever taken a course that relied on all online material only. 

it was unfortunate that i could not sell the Appy book.

I agree that the nuances of using open-source materials for a class would present a number of challenges, I can't think of any sure fire way to combat these challenges. Perhaps, at least if there was a freely-available e-book that the teacher thought was proficient enough to learn from, the teacher could provide that to students, that way it's not prone to changing and everyone has the same copy of the book. I get that that's not typically how books work, and few are free, but the thinking is sound.

I would have no problem doing all my reading online, in fact, I quite often search the internet for books I already own because I like not having to worry about leaving my books anywhere, they're always on my cell phone/laptop/iPad. I think that the times in which I would actually print out a book is few and far between, I personally hate printers and have refused them in the past. There are ways to highlight e-books, and personally I usually write hand-written notes, which gives me time to reflect and remember the material I'm absorbing. Contrary to this, I usually type notes that I get from watching videos, I don't know how to explain the discrepancy.

I really like the idea of a bookless class. I had a health course that was strictly online with no requirement to  purchase books and it was still a good class plus I saved a lot of money.

I don't even know what a wiki is!

The only thing we've used for note sharing in other classes is the general online forum on Moodle, and that seems to have worked fine.

I don't think it would be super convenient at first, but I think a straight History of Vietnam Twitter would be incredible. You can hyperlink texts, video, pictures, websites, in a single tweet. And for all those who are in the class, they can either make or just use the Twitter they already have. Search for the Twitter handle, and presto, they're following it.  It'll lead to more students who might be forgetful to check moodle, to come across it while they're on their social media sites.  You can also rely on them seeing that on Twitter, to lead them to go and double check their moodle to make sure they didn't forget anything. I personally would have loved to see a Twitter account for this class, it's modern and it's accessible to everyone.

I never posted to wiki because I was afraid that it would be published online and feared my information would be incorrect. I don't know of any web-based tool that could be used. I would have liked to have an optional study group scheduled like a hybrid class where we could check in or meet with other students once a week if we wanted to.

yup

I guess I didn't realize there was a wiki.... and I don't know of anything that would be good for those things.

Both, I found the wiki very useful and the posters made finding relevant material easier.

I actually missed the initial post you made commenting about the Wiki or i probably would have used it but that is my own fault. sadly i do not have any suggestions that have not already been implemented.

I think that the student to student forum works fine for discussions and adding information. 

N/A

For me, a wiki for sharing notes with other classmates is a little intimidating. I am not tech savvy so I do not have a web-based tool or service to advice. Perhaps, authorizing more research on our own that would involve researching the internet for topic information then sharing the information found in a forum post might be another option for a forum post assignment requirement.

It would have been cool if we all had to meet face to face atleast once, then maybe it would have worked

I think the wiki was actually a really good idea, I even had material that set aside that I had created expressly for this purpose. As for why I didn't post anything in there, perhaps because there was no incentive to do so? That being said, I don't think there -should- be any incentive to do so, not even for extra credit.

No.

Practically nothing! Great class, exceptionally managed, perfectly clear expectations and guidelines.

I know it would be a little tricky, as there is so much speculation and opinion about Vietnam, but I would have been interested to hear your take on certain issues that were brought up in forums.  

I have absolutely no complaints about this class. Even the portions of assigned reading that I didn't particularly enjoy were informative, and I didn't feel like any of the assignments were a waste of time. Sometimes I walk away from a class and retain only basic ideas and concepts, but this class is certainly different. I feel like the overall understanding I gained from the breadth of reading/viewing/writing in this class will definitely stick with me. I could speak confidently with someone about the Vietnam War right now, and when I started this course, all I knew about Vietnam was what I learned from Forrest Gump. I've been so interested in this class that it makes me wonder what other historical subjects I've been missing out on. (I frequently found myself wondering while reading, "How did I never know this happened??")

Thanks for such a well-run course. Tied for first place in my list of favorite classes!

The only question I have at the end of this course is directed to you personally Mr. Escobar. Is Robert McNamara a bad man? I have tried and tried, and thought tirelessly about it. And while he may have pushed for an escalation in a war he didn't understand at the time, I couldn't hate him for his actions. I found that he acted exactly how I would have in that situation.  And I guess that leads me to ask you, are there any definitive "wrongs" he did that are unforgivable? 

I noticed that the book has an online component. I think it would be good to mention this and let the students know their are flashcards and multiple choice questions to practice with. I found them helpful, I wish I would have known they were there for the midterm. I would have also liked to see you give feedback in the forums when someone hit on a key idea that you were looking for so we could focus on the main ideas. Overall, the class was hard, but very enjoyable. I took this as the last 3 credits I needed to graduate, it could have been any elective credit class, thanks for offering it.

yup

It was overall a really good course. I would've like to have been able to put 100% effort into learning everything but I was also taking anatomy and physiology at UO, so I really needed to put more time into making sure I got A's in those classes.

Overall very good class

resulting grades depend on how much effort you put into it

The only thing i really wished for was a little less strict deadlines on the forums but i trust that they are set up how they are for a reason the rest of the course was set up quite to my liking although sometimes I did not know exactly what was wanted for writing assignments overall the class was very engaging and educational which is sadly a rare thing in colleges classes at lane now. 

Let the students really focus on just the reading material. There was a lot of reading, and I am a slow reader and never really could feel like I caught up. The forums just distracted me and I felt like they were pointless. 

N/A

I think that your questions were thorough. Improvements may be submitting a first draft of the writing assignments then giving the student a chance to edit and improve their writing assignment score. The grading was hard but it prepared me for what to expect when I transfer to the U of O this upcoming winter term. It has been two years since my last writing class and I felt a little rusty. In addition, due to my work schedule I was unable to go into the help center for additional help writing my paper in order to achieve a higher grade on my papers.

Hope this online classes improve and help both the teacher and student

I got nothin', well done!

Nothing. Thank you for an interesting class.