On 2/24/2003 3:30:16 PM, Courtney
LaFrance wrote:

A reason could be a
>conscious or unconscious
>decision which leads to a
>particular behavior. Can we
>excuse someone who decides to
>molest their child because
>they were molested as a child?
>No. I do not believe there is
>any excuse for a conscious
>behavior simply because there
>is always more than one
>choice. Some people just make
>the wrong one.

There are more than one things they
physically could have done, but how
about psychologically? If molestation was
really a matter of "free will", then we
wouldn't expect those who were molested
to be any more or any less likley to
become molesters themselves. Yet
clearly when you look at molestation,
alcoholism, physical abuse, and so on,
those with parents possessing these
dysfunctions are MUCH more likely to
follow these same patterns. themsleves.
Now of course not EVERY victim
becomes an abuser, and the determinist
would say that this is because there are
many different variables at work.
However, the fact that these patterns exist
seem to point to the fact that these acts
should be studied and treated not
blamed and condemned because they
are "freely chosen."

Skinner would say that once we give up
the "blame game" we can approach
behavior like scientists and try to
understand and then mold and shape it
to prevent future abuse.

>When someone makes a conscious
>choice, there is always
>another option besides the one
>that was chosen. Always. I
>don't need to assume this,
>it's fact.

It sounds like your begging the question
here, assuming what you're trying to
prove. To take the Argument from
Determinism in physics, what reason to
you have to believe that human beings
are exempted from the laws of cause and
effect, which apply to every other thing in
the universe?

Does a convicted
>criminal that is going to jail
>have more than one option?
>Yes. 1.)They could kill
>themselves to avoid jail OR
>2.)If they haven't gone to
>jail already, they could flee.
>OR 3.)Alternative choice.

How do people make choices? Don't they
have reasons? And aren't these reasons
based on their personality and beliefs?
And isn't their personality, including
unconscious motivations, formed before
they are five years old (Freud) or a result
of which behaviors have been rewarded
or punished in their experience
(Skinner)?

Why is this person a criminal in the first
place. Did he choose to be a criminal, or
did he grow up in poverty and abuse with
poor role models and conditions which
reinforced anti-social behaviors?

Prof. Borrowdale
borrowdalej@lanecc.edu
541-463-5434