On 2/24/2003 10:48:11 PM, Cathy
Fleming-Tentinger wrote:
>I also believe God meant for
>us to have free will, which is
>why the bible tells us to seek
>him

Although this isn't a class on the
particulars of Christian Theology (though
we do cover such things in Religions of
the Middle East and Christian
Beginnings), I think it's important to
realize that there are many passages in
the Bible which seem to support
Predestination. Here are a few:

John 6:64 "But there are some of you who
do not believe." For Jesus knew from the
beginning who they were who did not
believe, and who it was that would betray
Him. And he was saying, "For this reason
I have said to you, that no one can come
to Me, unless it has been granted him
from the Father."

Acts 13:48 ...and as many believed as
had been appointed to eternal life
believed.

Ephesians 1:4-5,10 ...just as He chose
us in Him before the foundation of the
world, that we should be holy and
blameless before Him. In love He
predestined us to adoption as sons
through Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the kind intention of His
will...also we have obtained an
inheritance, having been predestined
according to His purpose who works all
things after the counsel of his will...

Romans 9:10-22 ......there was also
Rebekah, when she had conceived twins
by one man, our father Isaac. Although
the twins were not yet born, and had not
done anything good or bad, in order that
God's purpose according to His choice
might stand (not because of works, but
because of Him who calls) it was said to
her, 'The older will serve the younger.'
Just as it is written, "Jacob I loved, but
Esau I hated." What shall we say then?
There is no injustice with God, is there?
May it never be! For He says to Moses, 'I
will have mercy on whom I will have
mercy, and I will have compassion on
whom I will have compassion.' So then it
does not depend on the man who wills or
the man who runs, but on God who has
mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh,
'For this very purpose I raised you up, to
demonstrate My power in you, and that My
Name might be proclaimed throughout
the whole earth.' So then He has mercy
on whom He desires, and He hardens
whom He desires. You will say to me
then, 'Why does He still find fault? For
who resists His will?' On the contrary,
who are you, O man, who answers back
to God? The thing molded will not say to
the molder, 'Why did you make me like
this,' will it? Or does not the potter have a
right over the clay, to make from the same
lump one vessel for honorable use, and
another for common use? What if God,
although willing to demonstrate His wrath
and make His power known, endured
with much patience vessels of wrath
prepared for destruction--and He did so
in order that He might make known the
riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy,
which He prepared beforehand for glory?

>I have avoided discussions
>about my beliefs up to now,
>because i believe that what I
>truly feel inside my heart is
>knowledge that only my God and
>I share, and no matter what
>words come out of my mouth to
>feed human ears, nobody truly
>knows what is in my heart.

Many Christians have this sort of attitude
towards religious beliefs. However, I think
if you look at New Testament figures like
Paul, they attempted to prove Jesus was
the messiah through pointing to Old
Testament prophesies, appeal to
eyewitnesses of his resurrection,
miracles, and so on. The beleived their
claims were objectively true and
demonstrable.

Also, have you ever thought that a person
of an opposing viewpoint (say a Jew who
rejects Jesus as the Messiah and Son of
God) or a Buddhist or even a Satanist
have the same inner feeling of certainty
that you have about your beliefs? But
given you believe contrary things about
God, you all can't be right. So, it seems
that one still needs to back up one's
beliefs with reasons (in a word,
philosophical justification).

I
>guess this is how I am feeling
>about this type of a class. I
>never have been a person too
>waste my breath on words that
>cannot be proven, yet I am
>commanded by the higher ups in
>education to do just that.

Why do you assume that certain things
can't be proven? I admit it's hard to take a
college course which doesn't require
critical thinking. I think this is a good
thing. In fact, it's what higher education is
all about. To quote Socrates "The
unexamined life is not worth living."

I
>can only hope that these test
>scores and words that I type
>for human ears suit those that
>it needs to suit.

To score well on the exam, you do not
have to agree with any of the various
theories or points of view presented in
Palmer or by me. You simply have to
remember and understand them. To that
end, I'm here available for quizzing,
tutoring, help with study guide questions
and so on. Please make use of me.

Prof. Borrowdale
borrowdalej@lanecc.edu