Message-ID: <6151371.1182532588428.JavaMail.joeescobar@joe-escobars-computer.local> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 10:01:27 -0700 (PDT) From: moodleadmin Reply-To: Online.MC_PO3.LCC-Mail@lanecc.edu Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: question about Moodle testing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_130_5265019.1182532588428" GWItemID: 45FB5A07.LCC-Mail.MC_PO3.100.1346735.1.37BB.1 ------=_Part_130_5265019.1182532588428 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So fixing at least part of this problem may not be as bad as I thought. From what I see, the real risk as things stand is that teachers who have checked "Scores" are inadvertently letting their students see the questions, the responses, and whether the responses were correct. I've changed the code in a test instance so that whe "scores" is checked by itself, it does what it's supposed to do: prints the score (actually, a table of scores for each attempt). Adding "responses" will still include the student's response and whether the question's right or wrong, which I think is the incorrect behavior (responses to me implies student resonse and nothing more: answer implies whether the response was right or wrong). The latter part I can't fix easily. The former part, I think I have. I would appreciate it if all of you could go in and verify that the review function acts as expected and as you think it should (within what I said above). If we all sign off on it, I can go ahead and make these changes to the production instance so that we can at least address some of these problems before finals week. But there may be behaviors that my changes have caused that I'm not taking into account, so I want somebody who's familiar with quizzes from an instructor's perspective and has used them enough to identify potential issues. The test instance is at . You can login as an admin with username "teacher" and password "whipsnap". The test student is username test, password test. There's an "Experimental course" there with a quiz ("Quiz to test review function") that I've been using for my tests; you can go ahead and muck around with it. (The test instance is a vanilla install of Moodle 1.6.4--no modifications except what I've done above. There are no user accounts but the ones I mentioned.) BTW, I can also, probably, fix the issue with secure quizzes being reviewed at non-secure locations, but I'll work on that tomorrow. David =============================================== David Walton Moodle System Administrator Lane Community College For enrollment, course creation, logging in, or general server issues, email moodleadmin@lanecc.edu For faculty assistance using Moodle, email online@lanecc.edu Voice: 463-3367 =============================================== >>> Online 03/16/07 7:28 PM >>> David and others, We have a very big problem. I've attached 2 screenshots. Picture 1 shows what most instructors, using secure tests, want to do. Only the scores boxes are checked for immediately after the attempt and later, while the quiz is still open. After the quiz is closed has all boxes clicked. Unfortunately, this does not work. I just ran though it for half an hour on the Moodle site for instructors using a quiz and banging away at it. First, REGARDLESS OF THE CLOSING DATE AND TIME, these settings in Picture 1, which are supposed to show only the score, show MUCH MORE than that. It shows the entire test. It shows what the students chose as answers. It says "correct" if they got it right and shows "incorrect" (although without revealing the correct answer... only that part of the unchecked Answers boxes seems to be working) if they got it wrong. Second, even if this was a secure test, based on IP address and password, it will show these results to ANY computer on the net, WITHOUT the password. Only by choosing the settings in Picture 2 (scores only) does the instructor have any chance of keeping the test secure. The student can only review their test by visiting the instructor's office, while the instructor is logged into Moodle. There is not chance to "see" the results in any secure environment whatsoevery. So, big problems here. I at least thought the settings in Picture 1 were working, keeping the "reviewableness" of the quiz hidden until after the closing date, but even this is not the case. Joe >>> moodleadmin 03/16/07 5:49 PM >>> I'm not really in a position to answer his questions, so I'm passing this on. From what I can see, the reporting of scores/responses/correct answers changed in 1.6 so that no grade is reported when the instructor has unchecked all of the boxes in the Update Quiz window. Am I wrong about that? Is there a way for a student to get the total score of the exam without getting a list of correct/incorrect responses? There is discussion of a bug in 1.6.4 where all the boxes were left unchecked and students were still getting all the response information, but that isn't what's happening here. David >>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 5:14 pm, in message <001401c76829$3e81f2c0$0100a8c0@office>, "Greg Miles" wrote: > Hi, David. Thanks for the clarification. Is there any way to give students > their quiz scores upon submission of their quizzes without identifying each > answer as correct or incorrect? In other words, can the identifying > function be disabled? When students take a quiz by computer, they expect to > > see right away how they did. > I thought "score" was just the quiz score. I had no idea that the > function pointed out all the correct and incorrect answers, as well as the > quiz score. What's to prevent one person in a study group from taking the > quiz and showing all the correct and incorrect answers to everyone else in > the group? The other group members would hardly have to open a book to get > all the questions correct. What are the Moodle people thinking? > Does anyone know how much LCC paid for its license for TestPilot? > Greg Miles. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "moodleadmin moodleadmin" > To: "Greg Miles" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 4:05 PM > Subject: Re: question about Moodle testing > > >> Greg, >> >> When you have "scores" checked, that allows students to see which >> questions they got right and which they got wrong. It doesn't indicate >> the correct answer when they got it wrong, so it doesn't provide a >> complete list of answers for the exam, but it does allow students to >> identify which of their answers were correct. I'm guessing that you don't >> want to provide that information, so you'll have to turn off scores until >> after the test is closed. >> >> I'm cc:ing this back to the faculty webmasters just in case I'm getting >> something wrong here. >> >> David >> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 2:46 pm, "Greg Miles" >>>>> wrote: >>> Hi, David. I'm currently in the middle of Oceanography exam 3, using >>> Moodle >>> testing. One of my students had a question about the correct answers to >>> three of the exam questions. He stated that he was able to see which >>> answers >>> he got correct and which ones were incorrect. I then checked the edit >>> function for the exam, and in the "Students may review" area, I have >>> checked >>> Responses, Scores, and Answers for "After the quiz is closed" (only) and >>> have >>> checked Scores (only) for "Immediately after the attempt" and "Later, >>> while >>> the quiz is still open". >>> For security reasons, I don't want the correct answers out at any time >>> while the exam is running. I logged into Moodle as the student, and >>> tried to >>> look at his exam. To my relief, I could not access his exam, so that is >>> one >>> less thing to worry about! >>> This is my first term using Moodle. Do you think I'm doing something >>> wrong? Or is it possible that the student is mistaken (or pulling my leg >>> for >>> some reason)? Can students actually see the correct answers to an exam >>> upon >>> submission if the "Answers" box is checked only for "After the quiz is >>> closed"? (Closure for this exam is set for March 20 at 8:10 pm.) Thanks >>> for >>> any advice you can give. >>> Greg Miles. >>> >> >> >> >> >> =============================================== >> David Walton >> Moodle System Administrator >> Lane Community College >> For enrollment, course creation, logging in, or general server issues, >> email moodleadmin@lanecc.edu >> For faculty assistance using Moodle, email online@lanecc.edu >> Voice: 463- 3367 >> =============================================== >> =============================================== David Walton Moodle System Administrator Lane Community College For enrollment, course creation, logging in, or general server issues, email moodleadmin@lanecc.edu For faculty assistance using Moodle, email online@lanecc.edu Voice: 463-3367 =============================================== ------=_Part_130_5265019.1182532588428--